Sunday, January 08, 2023

Started: Dune by Frank Herbert

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12 comments:

Whisky Prajer said...

I wanted to like Frank Herbert, but Geez-Louise his prose is stilted! And it only got worse as he got older and the books -- and royalties -- accrued. That was one fine lookin' movie, though.

January 8, 2023 at 7:30 PM
Joel Swagman said...

I'm 84 pages into it so far, and I'm inclined to agree with your opinion. The prose is really clunky. I had heard from so many people about what a great Science Fiction classic this book was, that I'm really surprised at how bad the prose is. I mean, if this book had been sold to me as a pulpy cheesy science fiction book, I wouldn't have minded the bad prose. But I'm having trouble reconciling the bad prose of the book with the high praise this book has gotten.

I guess I'll have to see how the story pans out.
I haven't seen the movie yet either. I take it you'd recommend it?

January 9, 2023 at 12:30 AM
Whisky Prajer said...

Yeah, I streamed Dune, Pt. 1 and that was part of the problem. Maybe if I'd seen it on a big screen, like I'd seen David Lynch's Dune., things would be different.

January 9, 2023 at 1:00 PM
Whisky Prajer said...

Assuming the audience doesn't spend any of all of that time on phones. Man, I hate that!

January 9, 2023 at 1:54 PM
Joel Swagman said...

I've never seen David Lynch's Dune either. Clearly I've got some catching up to do. I'll try to track down the movies someday. After I finish the book, of course.
Would you recommend I keep going with any of the sequels?

January 11, 2023 at 1:06 AM
Whisky Prajer said...

Don't do that -- Herbert only gets worse! I think I made it as far as Dune: Messiah. Herbert was now in the habit of grinding out a book a year , and his hunger for the yearly paycheck could not be denied, except by readers like you and me saying "no!" and refusing to read further. That time was better spent (for me) reading Asimov's Foundation series. Asimov was also hungry for the paycheck, but at least he could write -- or more likely could spot someone who knew.

January 11, 2023 at 6:45 PM
Whisky Prajer said...

Mebbe listen to this interview if you want more Herbert. I made it as far as The God Emperor Of Dune, apparently. I honestly don't remember. I remember this passage but I couldn't tell you about Dune Messiah really. I'll leave that to you. ;)

January 11, 2023 at 7:56 PM
Whisky Prajer said...

Filmmakers love it though. I love what George Lucas did with it.

January 11, 2023 at 8:07 PM
Joel Swagman said...

Interesting. Thank you as always for the links.
I'm currently at my in-laws place for Tet holidays, but I plan to listen to that interview when I get back to Saigon.
I got the impression from these guys https://youtu.be/o9vXB0mNeSE that all the Frank Herbert Dune books were worth reading, but I could stop at the Brian Herbert books.
I am having to admit, however, that I'm finding the book a bit exhausting at the moment, and would probably be happy to stop at this one. (I'm now 506 pages in.)
(I've also long been meaning to come back and read Foundation again. I read the first book in high school, but never continued on with the others.)

January 11, 2023 at 10:51 PM
Whisky Prajer said...

Gee, now I want to reread Dune! These guys really like the Dune book, too. I dunno, man. I'm partial to the irony-free interview between two egg-heads but that's just me. The world needs more tarot decks I think.

January 12, 2023 at 10:15 PM
Joel Swagman said...

Yeah, those guys really sell that book, don't they? That CPL Book of the day video is the reason I'm reading Dune right now. It had long been on my list of "books to read someday", but after watching that video, I thought, "I'm going to pick that book up the next chance I get." Fortunately for me, Dune is widely available in the bookstores in Saigon at the moment. (Often living in Asia limits my choice of available books, but Dune is popular enough to be everywhere at the moment. Possibly the recent movie has boosted it in popularity.)
The other video that made me want to read Dune is another Steve Donoghue video here (https://youtu.be/9rCUilyCtMs) where he implies that Dune is the best science fiction book of the 20th century, and places it as better than Asimov's Foundation series.
I put a lot of weight in Steve Donoghue's opinions, so this persuaded me.
Although now that I'm into the book, I don't know. I'm thinking you may be right that Foundation is better. (I really need to revisit Foundation. I haven't read it since high school.)
I'm currently 710 pages into Dune. I normally don't read this fast, but I'm on vacation now at the in-laws house, and have more time to read than I normally do. Perhaps because this book is my only distraction while I'm out here in the countryside, I'm getting more immersed in it than I normally would, and consequently getting tired of it faster than I normally would. I don't know.
I'm finding the book alternatively both really fascinating and really tiresome. I like the epic nature of the plot. I love all the subplots and plot twists along the way, and I like the intricate scheming and plans that the Great Houses have against each other. That stuff is all great. Like "Game of Thrones" but set in space.
But all that mystical and spiritual stuff is... I don't know. A bit weird, isn't it? Certainly very repetitive. And those mystical sections don't really have a lot of forward narrative momentum.
And all those descriptions of the desert. I don't know. If I'm going to spend so much time immersed in a book's setting, I would like it to be a setting that's a bit more colorful and vibrant. I mean, I know the harshness of the desert is the whole point of the book, but I'd like to spend my time imagining a place that's a bit more colorful.
Thanks again for the links. I can't listen to a lot of audio when I'm at my in-laws house, but I'll catch up on everything when I get back to Saigon.

January 13, 2023 at 12:39 AM
Joel Swagman said...

Finished up the main text of the book the narrative this morning. Now onto the 4 appendices, Terminology of the Imperium, Cartographic Notes, the Map, and the afterward by Brian Herbert. You still remember the appendices, I trust?
That story was something, wasn't it? Definitely epic is scope. Although now that I've gotten to the end of it, I'm not sure all the plot threads got developed as well as they could have. There were long conversations in the book in which much was made of various schemes and plots, only for the conclusions of these schemes and plots to be just dismissed in a couple sentences later on in the book. The weighting of build-up and payoff felt a bit off, in other words.
I'm also not entirely sure it was 100% consistent. Paul's talent of seeing the future seemed to turn on and off depending on when it was convenient for the plot. The same with Jessica's ability to control people with her voice.
The ending was satisfying in its way, but left a lot of ambiguity. Are we supposed to feel good about Paul's triumph or not? What is going to be the long term result of this?
To be fair, I think that ambiguity is there intentionally. (I state the obvious, of course. Frank Herbert went out of his way to hammer the whole uncertainty of the future over and over again in the text.) Am I going to have to read Dune Messiah after all?

Well, first onto the appendices before I make any big decisions.

January 14, 2023 at 1:12 AM

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